Modular Is The Way
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Modular Is The Way
As there is so much debate and discussion over the modular vs integrated topic, very little of which is based on fact (just opinions) and no conlusions I decided to ask them myself. Yep, I wrote to 14 major UK airlines and asked them directly:
Would you prefer an integrated student or a modular student?
So far I have received 11 replies.
10 of them stated that it does not make a difference and advised me do go with the route that is most cost effective and suitable for me
Only 1 of them said they prefer their cadets to have completed an integrated course at a certain school which they deal with and put their sponsored cadets through.
Well???
From the horses' mouths I sure as hell know now what Im doing, and guess what?
It aint a rip off integrated course!!!
I havn't yet decided where to go but wherever its gonna be modular. Ive just completed my PPL Im gonna get some more hours and get on with it, and be better off for it!
PEOPLE DON'T WASTE YOUR MONEY!!!
Would you prefer an integrated student or a modular student?
So far I have received 11 replies.
10 of them stated that it does not make a difference and advised me do go with the route that is most cost effective and suitable for me
Only 1 of them said they prefer their cadets to have completed an integrated course at a certain school which they deal with and put their sponsored cadets through.
Well???
From the horses' mouths I sure as hell know now what Im doing, and guess what?
It aint a rip off integrated course!!!
I havn't yet decided where to go but wherever its gonna be modular. Ive just completed my PPL Im gonna get some more hours and get on with it, and be better off for it!
PEOPLE DON'T WASTE YOUR MONEY!!!
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To quote the butler only recently
Finally the butler does some proper research.
Heres to using the search button!
Eye eye mooney boy, I suppose Im in a similarish situation but Im tryin to decide whether or not to complete my PPL before I go to either oxford or Jerez. Ive done sooo much research into flight schools ground schools etc etc and have arrived at the general idea that I will be better off with integrated training. I don't care what people say that it doesn't make a **** of difference for jobs, I think at the moment that it does. There seems to be a preference and it it seems safer.
Heres to using the search button!
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It seems logical that most young wannabees are drawn to the PR driven world of integrated schools. Ignoring their prices then they do look attractive from the standpoint of providing a one stop shop and if you see them in action at the various flight training shows then the glitz and glamour probably gets some of the more naive young ins as well. For those of us that are more street savvy and willing to spend some time doing the research then modular will win hands down everytime.
Nice bit of reserach though Butler.
Nice bit of reserach though Butler.
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I may be wrong but you may have been asking only half the question. At the BEOC on saturday, of the airlines that presented that may be taking low houred pilots anytime soon, nearly all of them stipulated integrated training as a requirement.
It's once you've got the hours and/or the type rating that it seems to become irrelevant.
Did you ask them specifically about low houred pilots?
I am doing modular by the way, and have been wishing for some time for all sorts of reasons that I'd gone integrated.
It's once you've got the hours and/or the type rating that it seems to become irrelevant.
Did you ask them specifically about low houred pilots?
I am doing modular by the way, and have been wishing for some time for all sorts of reasons that I'd gone integrated.
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Did anyone actually ask the presenters why they prefer integrated?
According to some of the posts on the conference thread, only BA & their affiliates stipulated integrated.
The lack of lobbying from modular schools is quite depressing.
According to some of the posts on the conference thread, only BA & their affiliates stipulated integrated.
The lack of lobbying from modular schools is quite depressing.
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BA & their affiliates stipulated integrated
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Well I was there and can assure you it was more than BA and Emirates! Emirates is irrelevant anyway as they stipulate min 1000 hrs for SO.
Someone during the session asked one of the airlines, (though I can't remember which one) as to why. The reason given was that "in their experience" they do better on the type rating.
Send Clowns is correct that CitiExpress specifically stated that they have no preference. They were the only ones to say this, hence the queue to ingratiate oneself with this guy stretched back to the M4.
Funnily enough no airline said they prefer modular over integrated!!!
One of the surprises for me was Channel Express saying they wanted integrated. They are definitely on my list of would-like-to-work-fors, and so after discussing this point with them quite vigorously we established that my modular background would not necessarily discount me, but I may have to escort my CV personally around some of the defences when the time comes. I at least get to say "you said I could apply when we met the BEOC"!!!!
Notwithstanding the type rating comment above I suspect that rather than a reflection of the quality of pilot between mod/int it's just a way of keeping the tonnage of CVs down.
Damn. I've just got involved in a modular vs integrated thread..Arggh!
Someone during the session asked one of the airlines, (though I can't remember which one) as to why. The reason given was that "in their experience" they do better on the type rating.
Send Clowns is correct that CitiExpress specifically stated that they have no preference. They were the only ones to say this, hence the queue to ingratiate oneself with this guy stretched back to the M4.
Funnily enough no airline said they prefer modular over integrated!!!
One of the surprises for me was Channel Express saying they wanted integrated. They are definitely on my list of would-like-to-work-fors, and so after discussing this point with them quite vigorously we established that my modular background would not necessarily discount me, but I may have to escort my CV personally around some of the defences when the time comes. I at least get to say "you said I could apply when we met the BEOC"!!!!
Notwithstanding the type rating comment above I suspect that rather than a reflection of the quality of pilot between mod/int it's just a way of keeping the tonnage of CVs down.
Damn. I've just got involved in a modular vs integrated thread..Arggh!
Its funny how people change their views so quickly especially since at one time I thought the butler had total belief in the intergrated schools. I suppose in April I was the same.
Just one point but modular is cheaper as long as you stick to the required hours to gain each part of the license. If you go over and really bugger up certain ratings then I sure the final cost will be more than what some of these adverts suggest is the total price for going modular. Just a thought.
Six sity, you seem to wish you had gone intergrated, is this because of the school ( would be interesting to know which school you are at) or just the recent situation with the oxford APP students getting jobs easily with Channel Express ( please don't quote me on this last bit) .
Mooneyboy
Just one point but modular is cheaper as long as you stick to the required hours to gain each part of the license. If you go over and really bugger up certain ratings then I sure the final cost will be more than what some of these adverts suggest is the total price for going modular. Just a thought.
Six sity, you seem to wish you had gone intergrated, is this because of the school ( would be interesting to know which school you are at) or just the recent situation with the oxford APP students getting jobs easily with Channel Express ( please don't quote me on this last bit) .
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Mooneyboy
For me it's probably 30% employability compared to 70% training environment.
Though I am nearly done with the groundschool via BGS who I am extremely happy with, I am not convinced about artificially divorcing of theoretical study from practical flying. I feel that for me a lot of the theory would make more sense in a practical context and vice versa. There's also the support /encougagement/ general energy thing you get from doing this in a group, though I appreciate you can do full-time modular as well.
If I were starting this from scratch, even though I had a PPL already, yes I probably would have gone integrated despite the cost. I am lucky that money is not my top criteria.
I'm not sure one route can be classed as "best". Isn't choice a wonderful thing!
For me it's probably 30% employability compared to 70% training environment.
Though I am nearly done with the groundschool via BGS who I am extremely happy with, I am not convinced about artificially divorcing of theoretical study from practical flying. I feel that for me a lot of the theory would make more sense in a practical context and vice versa. There's also the support /encougagement/ general energy thing you get from doing this in a group, though I appreciate you can do full-time modular as well.
If I were starting this from scratch, even though I had a PPL already, yes I probably would have gone integrated despite the cost. I am lucky that money is not my top criteria.
I'm not sure one route can be classed as "best". Isn't choice a wonderful thing!
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Six
I'm not sure that on an integrated course you do that much flying whilst studying. My favourite part of modular was going off somewhere new whilst hour building and studying.
However I know what you mean. At times it just feels that if there was some form of modular school assosciation we may get more lobbying done on our behalf....it's a lonely old route.
I'm not sure that on an integrated course you do that much flying whilst studying. My favourite part of modular was going off somewhere new whilst hour building and studying.
However I know what you mean. At times it just feels that if there was some form of modular school assosciation we may get more lobbying done on our behalf....it's a lonely old route.
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Why the change?
First of all I was totally in the middle. Then as I found out more and more I ended up convinced that integrated was definitely the way (without talking to any marketing people by the way).
Then as I looked more and more into it and considered modular again I was in the middle and undecided. There is such a split opinion to which way is best and noone seems to know any truth and Id had enough of listening to the arguments. So I thought why not write to the airlines themselves.
And there we go. Settled for good and am no longer confused and will be perfectly confident throughout my training that I will have as much chance as anyone else when it comes to getting a job.
Six sixty-
Apart from the long haul airlines which said it doesn't make a difference because they don't recruit anyone with less than x hours, the others said
IF they were to recruit low houred guys (responding to my question) then having completed a modular course done at various different places etc would not hinder them in any way. Some even said that it actually looks good because it demonstrates ability to manage and organize yourself and things like that.
Im so glad I found this out, otherwise I would have wasted a hell of a lot of money for absolutely no reason whatsoever.
Cheers, and remember,
just say 'no' to integrated bolucks!
First of all I was totally in the middle. Then as I found out more and more I ended up convinced that integrated was definitely the way (without talking to any marketing people by the way).
Then as I looked more and more into it and considered modular again I was in the middle and undecided. There is such a split opinion to which way is best and noone seems to know any truth and Id had enough of listening to the arguments. So I thought why not write to the airlines themselves.
And there we go. Settled for good and am no longer confused and will be perfectly confident throughout my training that I will have as much chance as anyone else when it comes to getting a job.
Six sixty-
Apart from the long haul airlines which said it doesn't make a difference because they don't recruit anyone with less than x hours, the others said
IF they were to recruit low houred guys (responding to my question) then having completed a modular course done at various different places etc would not hinder them in any way. Some even said that it actually looks good because it demonstrates ability to manage and organize yourself and things like that.
Im so glad I found this out, otherwise I would have wasted a hell of a lot of money for absolutely no reason whatsoever.
Cheers, and remember,
just say 'no' to integrated bolucks!
Last edited by The Butler; 13th Oct 2004 at 19:03.
I totally agree with six sixty about the seperation between ground theory and the flight part afterwards. I found this a few years ago with the Air Law in the PPL. When things were put into pratical practice things became clearer. However this does happen with the reverse. Anyway good luck with the rest of your training.
Butler. I must have hit a nerve. The reason I thought you were pro intergrated at first was because you were saying you wanted to go through the big intergrated schools, Oxford and Jerez. I do not apologise for at first believing that you were pro intergrated.
One thing I am sure of is when you are going through ( I myself have just applied to a modular course) your modular route there will be definately times when you will feel that you should have gone intergrated. I know that if I had just finished a modular course at oxford now I would have been thinking that I would be in an airline quicker if I had gone intergrated.
So for been ' perfectly confident throughout your course' I somewhat doubt it.
Mooneyboy
Butler. I must have hit a nerve. The reason I thought you were pro intergrated at first was because you were saying you wanted to go through the big intergrated schools, Oxford and Jerez. I do not apologise for at first believing that you were pro intergrated.
One thing I am sure of is when you are going through ( I myself have just applied to a modular course) your modular route there will be definately times when you will feel that you should have gone intergrated. I know that if I had just finished a modular course at oxford now I would have been thinking that I would be in an airline quicker if I had gone intergrated.
So for been ' perfectly confident throughout your course' I somewhat doubt it.
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Well i just wanted to say that most schools will charge a big amount for a integrated course but after endless research i did find a reasonably priced intergrated course in Canada and thats where im going to be going on the 21st...now the way i see it is in the end as long as u get your licences and ratings and you are able to do it with the utmost dedication integrated courses can be completed
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I didn't know there were any JAA integrated schools in Canada? According to this caa document the only integrated schools are Oxford, FTE and cabair.
What's the name of the place you've found Wannabeflyer?
PW
What's the name of the place you've found Wannabeflyer?
PW
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The Integrated v. Modular debate is flawed in that it is assumed that one is "better" than the other. The decision to go down a certain route is personal choice based on personal circumstance and personal aspirations.
If Mr. X is loaded and money isn't an issue, then he may well decide that a structured integrated course (on the average, the more expensive route) will get him the required bits of paper pretty quickly and he'll have a nice structured environment in which to complete his training...just what he'd like from his training provider.
Ms. Y can't afford $xx,xxx for Mr. X's integrated course and doesn't want to be in debt from taking out a loan. She decides that she'll have to work while training (though she has a bit saved away) so she goes down the modular route - it'll probably take her a bit longer to get those bits of paper but she figures at least she'll be debt-free.
After 18 months or so, Mr. X has a shiny new fATPL. After 3 years or so, Ms. Y has a shiny new fATPL. Mr. X and Ms. Y have similar hours and ceratinly any difference between them isn't too drastic as they both definately fit in the "low-houred" bracket.
Mr X is happy - minimum time to get his fTPL and a nice support network around him. Ms. Y is happy too - she's been in work for years and didn't fancy the structured integrated option...and couldn't afford it anyway.
Mr. X and Ms. Y made decisions based on their circumstances and, yes, maybe one of the factors they looked at was their prospective employer's preference (if one exists, regardless of them deeming it fair or not fair).
My point is there is no "best way of getting an fATPL" for everyone. It's not that clear-cut. By all means we should talk about pros and cons but not really whether one is better or not.
Good luck
V1R
If Mr. X is loaded and money isn't an issue, then he may well decide that a structured integrated course (on the average, the more expensive route) will get him the required bits of paper pretty quickly and he'll have a nice structured environment in which to complete his training...just what he'd like from his training provider.
Ms. Y can't afford $xx,xxx for Mr. X's integrated course and doesn't want to be in debt from taking out a loan. She decides that she'll have to work while training (though she has a bit saved away) so she goes down the modular route - it'll probably take her a bit longer to get those bits of paper but she figures at least she'll be debt-free.
After 18 months or so, Mr. X has a shiny new fATPL. After 3 years or so, Ms. Y has a shiny new fATPL. Mr. X and Ms. Y have similar hours and ceratinly any difference between them isn't too drastic as they both definately fit in the "low-houred" bracket.
Mr X is happy - minimum time to get his fTPL and a nice support network around him. Ms. Y is happy too - she's been in work for years and didn't fancy the structured integrated option...and couldn't afford it anyway.
Mr. X and Ms. Y made decisions based on their circumstances and, yes, maybe one of the factors they looked at was their prospective employer's preference (if one exists, regardless of them deeming it fair or not fair).
My point is there is no "best way of getting an fATPL" for everyone. It's not that clear-cut. By all means we should talk about pros and cons but not really whether one is better or not.
Good luck
V1R
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Except what you just said is wrong...modular can be done in same time or less than integrated. And comes out with more hours.
If you're going to try and make points be accurate at least.
If you're going to try and make points be accurate at least.
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V1 Rotate
Could you please not post misinformation? It is commonly said that an integrated course is quicker and more structured. This is a false impression, based on the experience of people who want the flexibility of a modular course, to take the time and use a variety of schools. If taken as a full-time, dedicated programme the modular course can not only be just as quick but also just as structured, assuming the student has one organisation run the training programme throughout.
Posting a false impression like you do can only confuse the issue for people choosing the route they wish to take. Obviously it also damages companies like my employer who provide a complete solution, zero to frozen ATPL, structured and monitored throughout by skilled instructors with a high level of standardisation, but as a modular course.
Could you please not post misinformation? It is commonly said that an integrated course is quicker and more structured. This is a false impression, based on the experience of people who want the flexibility of a modular course, to take the time and use a variety of schools. If taken as a full-time, dedicated programme the modular course can not only be just as quick but also just as structured, assuming the student has one organisation run the training programme throughout.
Posting a false impression like you do can only confuse the issue for people choosing the route they wish to take. Obviously it also damages companies like my employer who provide a complete solution, zero to frozen ATPL, structured and monitored throughout by skilled instructors with a high level of standardisation, but as a modular course.
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I know someone who just finished modular route last month with just over 200 hrs. He is now on a 737 type rating course. Modular / integrated is irrevelant unless you want to get into BA or a BA franchise airline.